[python-win32] Windows 10

Discussion:

JPL

2015-10-25 22:40:43 UTC

Hi,
Newbie here, trying to determine a way ahead to get started with Python.
My computer (Dell laptop) runs Windows 10. Is there anything that would
keep me from using Python or something I should be aware of?
Thnx!
___________________________________________________
My email server has been unreliable lately. If you haven't heard from
me and are expecting a reply, try my other
email: ***@gmail.com

Laura Creighton

2015-10-25 23:07:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by JPL
Hi,
Newbie here, trying to determine a way ahead to get started with Python.
My computer (Dell laptop) runs Windows 10. Is there anything that would
keep me from using Python or something I should be aware of?
Thnx!
___________________________________________________
My email server has been unreliable lately. If you haven't heard from
me and are expecting a reply, try my other

Hi JPL:
Laura who was webmaster here!
You didn't ask me _that_ (grin).

I would have told you no, nope, not only does Python work with
windows 10, but there is a special Microsoft group set up to ensure that! :)

You just said you wanted a place to discuss python on windows 10!
so I send you here. :)

----------

Hi python-win32.

Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?

python-windows would be my suggestion ....

Just great to have you all back after the recent hard disk crash,

Laura

JPL

2015-10-25 23:13:49 UTC

Permalink

ok, great, thanks Laura. Learning my way around. I guess there are two
"challenges", running Python on Windows 10 and thanks for the pointer to
that specific Microsoft group. And then Python itself, which I guess is the
focus of this group. So we're all good! Thanks tons for your help.
v/s, Jim (giniajim)

-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Creighton
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:07 PM
To: JPL
Cc: Python email-list ; ***@openend.se
Subject: Re: [python-win32] Windows 10

eryksun

2015-10-26 06:04:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by Laura Creighton
Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?
python-windows would be my suggestion ....

I agree. This list is about programming in Python on Windows, so
python-windows is an obvious name and one that a novice programmer can
easily recognize.

I think the name has yet to change because a lot of programmers still
refer to the Windows API as "Win32" instead of "WinAPI". Also, the
system directory on 64-bit Windows is still called "System32", and
many of the more well-known system DLLs still have "32" in the name,
such as the following:

shell32, ole32, kernel32, crypt32, opengl32,
user32, advapi32, win32spl, comctl32, comdlg32,
gdi32, rasapi32, w32time, wldap32, ws2_32,
tapi32, cfgmgr32, imm32, msvfw32, clfsw32,
netapi32, wtsapi32, mssign32, secur32, riched32

Zachary Turner via python-win32

2015-10-26 16:44:27 UTC

Permalink

It's not that "many programmers still refer to Windows API as Win32", it's
that the Windows API itself has decided that that is what it is called.
When you #define _WIN32 in a C or C++ program using the Windows API, it
does not mean "this is a 32-bit app", it means "I'm using the Windows
API". That's why you still define this even in 64-bit builds, for example,
where you #define both _WIN32 and _WIN64.

You're not wrong, but it's just that the problem goes deeper than what you
make it sound :) The Windows API *is* the Win32 API and vice versa. They
are synonyms.

Post by eryksun

Post by Laura Creighton
Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?
python-windows would be my suggestion ....

I agree. This list is about programming in Python on Windows, so
python-windows is an obvious name and one that a novice programmer can
easily recognize.
I think the name has yet to change because a lot of programmers still
refer to the Windows API as "Win32" instead of "WinAPI". Also, the
system directory on 64-bit Windows is still called "System32", and
many of the more well-known system DLLs still have "32" in the name,
shell32, ole32, kernel32, crypt32, opengl32,
user32, advapi32, win32spl, comctl32, comdlg32,
gdi32, rasapi32, w32time, wldap32, ws2_32,
tapi32, cfgmgr32, imm32, msvfw32, clfsw32,
netapi32, wtsapi32, mssign32, secur32, riched32
_______________________________________________
python-win32 mailing list
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32

eryksun

2015-10-26 21:24:14 UTC

Permalink

Post by Zachary Turner via python-win32
It's not that "many programmers still refer to Windows API as Win32", it's
that the Windows API itself has decided that that is what it is called.
When you #define _WIN32 in a C or C++ program using the Windows API, it
does not mean "this is a 32-bit app", it means "I'm using the Windows
API". That's why you still define this even in 64-bit builds, for example,
where you #define both _WIN32 and _WIN64.

To some extent the _WIN32 macro is a deeper explanation, as in going
deeper into the API header files, but it's also a symptom of the same
short-sighted naming scheme that plagues the name of the system
directory and DLL names. The Portable Systems Group (NT's original
development team) should have put more planning into this, but ISTM
updating 16-bit Windows to Win32 was a rush job at the middle stages
of NT development. It was originally supposed to be "NT OS/2" instead
of "Windows NT", and they had to switch direction halfway through
development.

To clarify, Win32 really is not the name of the API. Microsoft changed
the name to "Windows API" [1]:

Note that [the Windows API] was formerly called the Win32 API. The
name Windows API more accurately reflects its roots in 16-bit Windows
and its support on 64-bit Windows.

In Microsoft's technical literature sometimes Win32 is used to refer
exclusively to 32-bit Windows, and sometimes it's referring to the API
in general.

[1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff818516

Mark Hammond

2015-10-28 06:59:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by Laura Creighton
Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?
python-windows would be my suggestion ....

python-windows would be a better name, but I don't think it is worth the
disruption of changing the email address of the list. I think the best
we can do now is to ensure the summary for the list make things clear
(which I think it does - "32" doesn't get mentioned)

Mark

Laura Creighton

2015-10-28 09:45:36 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mark Hammond

Post by Laura Creighton
Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?
python-windows would be my suggestion ....

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
still says:
python-win32 Python on win32

Can you Mark -- or anybody else who has mailman editing rights to
this list go to the General Options page and change the line for
_Description_ to be something more like "Discussion group for Python on ALL versions of Windows, not just win32"

That should make the list easier for people to find.

Thank you very much.

Laura

Tim Golden

2015-10-28 09:55:07 UTC

Permalink

Post by eryksun

Post by Mark Hammond

Post by Laura Creighton
Can I suggest a mailing list name change to reflect 64 bit windows?
python-windows would be my suggestion ....

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
python-win32 Python on win32
Can you Mark -- or anybody else who has mailman editing rights to
this list go to the General Options page and change the line for
_Description_ to be something more like "Discussion group for Python on ALL versions of Windows, not just win32"
That should make the list easier for people to find.

I've just made the (I believe) uncontroversial change to: "Python on
Windows" for the description. If Mark or anyone wants to extend it
further, please go ahead. I don't believe that wording around "all
versions of .. not only" adds anything. Windows is Windows.

TJG

Laura Creighton

2015-10-28 10:20:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Tim Golden
I've just made the (I believe) uncontroversial change to: "Python on
Windows" for the description. If Mark or anyone wants to extend it
further, please go ahead. I don't believe that wording around "all
versions of .. not only" adds anything. Windows is Windows.
TJG

The only reason you would need 'not only 32' is because of the name
of the list. And, Tim, _you_ are a webmaster. How much mail do we get
saying 'does this installer work on my windows 64 system'? I fear
knowing that 'Windows is Windows' is not general knowledge.

Laura

Tim Golden

2015-10-28 10:49:58 UTC

Permalink

Post by Laura Creighton

I've updated the brief description and the longer blurb to include the
phrase "32-bit and 64-bit".

TJG